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	<title>Comments on: Putting media queries in their place</title>
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	<description>Advice on web design and digital strategy from Paul Boag</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Purnelle</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9838</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Purnelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 14:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just remember that the development files should not be the same than production files.
Nothing wrong with your method :)

As developers we should always work on &quot;highly comprehensive maintainable code&quot; and use a tool that will turn it into an &quot;ugly optimized code&quot;. That&#039;s what minifiers do.
In our particular case, individual media queries should be automatically grouped as some persons have already said here. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just remember that the development files should not be the same than production files.<br />
Nothing wrong with your method :)</p>
<p>As developers we should always work on &#8220;highly comprehensive maintainable code&#8221; and use a tool that will turn it into an &#8220;ugly optimized code&#8221;. That&#8217;s what minifiers do.<br />
In our particular case, individual media queries should be automatically grouped as some persons have already said here. </p>
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		<title>By: Matt Keogh</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9837</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Keogh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is how I created my last responsive design:

Two major breakpoints in different CSS files. &quot;Global&quot; and &quot;Wide&quot;.


Each file has an index at the top and is split into easy to understand sections - eg: 4=outside structure, 5=individual pages.

At then end of each of those I have some minor breakpoints. These are based on the original design&#039;s columns at fairly equal intervals. I find that constant resizing of the screen to see when things breaks will create too many breakpoints. Using common device widths is pointless as these will change.

I played with the idea of having each elements style (link in your example) have its own media query. The problem is you end up with millions of the same delarations of media queries - not good for bloat or in case you change your mind.

The &quot;global&quot; css file is served to all device widths - if there is something that I definitely don&#039;t want the wide devices to see I hide it using a media query.

Both global and wide is served to lessthanIE9. BUT I make the website non-liqued for those browsers. That way I don&#039;t have worry about advanced CSS that is used to lay the site out or that is served up by the inner media queries. What I do is make sure that lessthanIE9 can understand ALL the css it needs to lay out the &quot;desktop&quot; version.


Hope that makes sense! - It&#039;s a method that I&#039;m still tweaking and I don&#039;t think anyone really has a one size fits all solution yet.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is how I created my last responsive design:</p>
<p>Two major breakpoints in different CSS files. &#8220;Global&#8221; and &#8220;Wide&#8221;.</p>
<p>Each file has an index at the top and is split into easy to understand sections &#8211; eg: 4=outside structure, 5=individual pages.</p>
<p>At then end of each of those I have some minor breakpoints. These are based on the original design&#8217;s columns at fairly equal intervals. I find that constant resizing of the screen to see when things breaks will create too many breakpoints. Using common device widths is pointless as these will change.</p>
<p>I played with the idea of having each elements style (link in your example) have its own media query. The problem is you end up with millions of the same delarations of media queries &#8211; not good for bloat or in case you change your mind.</p>
<p>The &#8220;global&#8221; css file is served to all device widths &#8211; if there is something that I definitely don&#8217;t want the wide devices to see I hide it using a media query.</p>
<p>Both global and wide is served to lessthanIE9. BUT I make the website non-liqued for those browsers. That way I don&#8217;t have worry about advanced CSS that is used to lay the site out or that is served up by the inner media queries. What I do is make sure that lessthanIE9 can understand ALL the css it needs to lay out the &#8220;desktop&#8221; version.</p>
<p>Hope that makes sense! &#8211; It&#8217;s a method that I&#8217;m still tweaking and I don&#8217;t think anyone really has a one size fits all solution yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Robson</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9836</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Robson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2012 07:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After a pleasant hour hacking around in LESS I figured out a possible solution that&#039;s highly maintable and can be extremely specific in creating a mobile first stylesheet using LESS and including support for IE - 
http://alwaystwisted.com/post.php?s=2012-06-05-another-approach-to-mobile-first-css-whilst-supporting-internet-explorer]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After a pleasant hour hacking around in LESS I figured out a possible solution that&#8217;s highly maintable and can be extremely specific in creating a mobile first stylesheet using LESS and including support for IE - <br />
<a href="http://alwaystwisted.com/post.php?s=2012-06-05-another-approach-to-mobile-first-css-whilst-supporting-internet-explorer" rel="nofollow">http://alwaystwisted.com/post.php?s=2012-06-05-another-approach-to-mobile-first-css-whilst-supporting-internet-explorer</a></p>
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		<title>By: Miriam Thomas</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9835</link>
		<dc:creator>Miriam Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think there are a few things to consider here.

1. putting styles for various break points in a separate file means that you can quickly and easily turn off ALL styles for that screen width (or device width). It means that you don&#039;t have to go hunting through a file with styles all over the place. It&#039;s also cleaner looking.

2. Performance. Fewer media queries. Better for the user

3. All that being said - it IS much easier from a development perspective to edit all the various versions of an element at once. Without having to hunt through three (at least) different files.

So I guess it comes down to what the goal is for a particular project. And ultimately how extensive your media query styling will be. If you are adding one or two fixes for a particular screen size - why not put it all in the same file?

I&#039;ve recently been leaning towards separate files. But I&#039;m ready to be convinced otherwise. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are a few things to consider here.</p>
<p>1. putting styles for various break points in a separate file means that you can quickly and easily turn off ALL styles for that screen width (or device width). It means that you don&#8217;t have to go hunting through a file with styles all over the place. It&#8217;s also cleaner looking.</p>
<p>2. Performance. Fewer media queries. Better for the user</p>
<p>3. All that being said &#8211; it IS much easier from a development perspective to edit all the various versions of an element at once. Without having to hunt through three (at least) different files.</p>
<p>So I guess it comes down to what the goal is for a particular project. And ultimately how extensive your media query styling will be. If you are adding one or two fixes for a particular screen size &#8211; why not put it all in the same file?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve recently been leaning towards separate files. But I&#8217;m ready to be convinced otherwise. </p>
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		<title>By: Joel Drapper</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9834</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Drapper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 13:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sass 2.3 makes this awesome. http://mikefowler.me/thoughts/passing-content-to-mixins-in-sass/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sass 2.3 makes this awesome. http://mikefowler.me/thoughts/passing-content-to-mixins-in-sass/</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Gustafson</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9833</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Gustafson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 11:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, like Stephanie, we usually split the design up into major and minor breakpoints, using the linked stylesheets in the head for major breakpoints and  media blocks in said stylesheets for minor breakpoints. All breakpoints are typically assigned in a mobile first pattern starting with no media query and moving up the scale using min-width tracked to the font size (which takes care of Android’s pesky zoom states). Occasionally, we might sequester a small set of styles within a range of sizes by adding in a max-width query too, but it’s rare,
Combined with SASS, which will compress your CSS and merge styles nested in identical @media blocks), this has resulted in smaller CSS files, fewer HTTP requests, and a smaller overall footprint on smaller/less-capable devices. It’s a win all around.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, like Stephanie, we usually split the design up into major and minor breakpoints, using the linked stylesheets in the head for major breakpoints and  media blocks in said stylesheets for minor breakpoints. All breakpoints are typically assigned in a mobile first pattern starting with no media query and moving up the scale using min-width tracked to the font size (which takes care of Android’s pesky zoom states). Occasionally, we might sequester a small set of styles within a range of sizes by adding in a max-width query too, but it’s rare,<br />
Combined with SASS, which will compress your CSS and merge styles nested in identical @media blocks), this has resulted in smaller CSS files, fewer HTTP requests, and a smaller overall footprint on smaller/less-capable devices. It’s a win all around.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PauldeWouters</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9832</link>
		<dc:creator>PauldeWouters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 09:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree, using SASS/ Compass solves these issues]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, using SASS/ Compass solves these issues</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Hopley</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9831</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hopley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 10:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t see any problem with your method, Paul. I think embedding media queries inside stylesheets is typically preferable, because it reduces HTTP requests.

Note that OOCSS has *two* main principles:

1. Separate structure and skin.
2. Separate container and content.

You already mentioned (2): avoid location-dependent styles. (1) is about organising your CSS so that you can reuse existing styles to create new variations.

For example, suppose you have a CSS3 button with gradients, shadows, and rounded corners. If you want to make a blue button and a red button, don&#039;t repeat all that code. Instead, specify a base style (e.g. the red button) and extend it with a new class (to make it blue instead). This means using multiple classes on the HTML element.

Also note that OOCSS -- when done well -- typically results in a significant reduction in code, not an increase. Surprisingly, this holds true for the HTML as well as the CSS. The CSS reduction is much greater, however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any problem with your method, Paul. I think embedding media queries inside stylesheets is typically preferable, because it reduces HTTP requests.</p>
<p>Note that OOCSS has *two* main principles:</p>
<p>1. Separate structure and skin.<br />
2. Separate container and content.</p>
<p>You already mentioned (2): avoid location-dependent styles. (1) is about organising your CSS so that you can reuse existing styles to create new variations.</p>
<p>For example, suppose you have a CSS3 button with gradients, shadows, and rounded corners. If you want to make a blue button and a red button, don&#8217;t repeat all that code. Instead, specify a base style (e.g. the red button) and extend it with a new class (to make it blue instead). This means using multiple classes on the HTML element.</p>
<p>Also note that OOCSS &#8212; when done well &#8212; typically results in a significant reduction in code, not an increase. Surprisingly, this holds true for the HTML as well as the CSS. The CSS reduction is much greater, however.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kynaston</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9830</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kynaston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 08:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s about performance. Having a few media queries that contain lots of rules has to be faster than potentially hundreds of media queries. Remember that this is performance at the client side - it&#039;s dependent on what the users&#039; hardware is..

It may be clearer/easier for the developer to read, but if it affects the rendering time in the browser then should we not lump all rules together still?

Interesting point though to see if the extra stylesheets are actually loaded anyway, then just not used, or whether they are loaded on request, at certain widths. Surely if they are all loaded then it makes a mockery of the mobile-first approach.. As I understood, the very point of this is that extra css (and images) are only loaded on bigger viewports. I&#039;m going to go and do some tests now...
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s about performance. Having a few media queries that contain lots of rules has to be faster than potentially hundreds of media queries. Remember that this is performance at the client side &#8211; it&#8217;s dependent on what the users&#8217; hardware is..</p>
<p>It may be clearer/easier for the developer to read, but if it affects the rendering time in the browser then should we not lump all rules together still?</p>
<p>Interesting point though to see if the extra stylesheets are actually loaded anyway, then just not used, or whether they are loaded on request, at certain widths. Surely if they are all loaded then it makes a mockery of the mobile-first approach.. As I understood, the very point of this is that extra css (and images) are only loaded on bigger viewports. I&#8217;m going to go and do some tests now&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: chris_d2d</title>
		<link>http://boagworld.com/dev/putting-media-queries-in-their-place/#comment-9829</link>
		<dc:creator>chris_d2d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 05:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boagworld.com/?p=7979#comment-9829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I ran into a similar conundrum designing my latest responsive site. I wanted to include the media queries in a master stylesheet to cut back on http requests.  The issue I ran into was whether or not I should group styles based on their elements/classes (i.e. what you have done with the blockquotes) or whether I should group them by media query. I use SASS so the blockquote like structure seemed to make sense in the nested .scss document. 

However, upon reflection, I am wondering if grouping based on media queries rather than elements/classes might cut down on repetition of the @media criteria. in large complicated stylesheets might this have any significant impact on the stylesheet size?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran into a similar conundrum designing my latest responsive site. I wanted to include the media queries in a master stylesheet to cut back on http requests.  The issue I ran into was whether or not I should group styles based on their elements/classes (i.e. what you have done with the blockquotes) or whether I should group them by media query. I use SASS so the blockquote like structure seemed to make sense in the nested .scss document. </p>
<p>However, upon reflection, I am wondering if grouping based on media queries rather than elements/classes might cut down on repetition of the @media criteria. in large complicated stylesheets might this have any significant impact on the stylesheet size?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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