Not signed in (Sign In)
A podcast and forum for those who design, develop and run websites.
Boagworld is not just a web design podcast, it is also a thriving online community. Whether you build, design or run websites there are always people here to help. Whatever your question there is sure to be somebody with the answer.
- subscribe via itunes
- subscribe via rss
- or get blog posts by email
Welcome, Guest
Want to take part in these discussions? Sign in if you have an account, or apply for one below
Vanilla 1.1.10 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
Talking tech How many people hand code and how many use a WYSIWYG program?
Bottom of Page1 to 47 of 47
-
Out of interest, how many people here hand code their sites and how many use a program like Dreamweaver (in design mode) or Frontpage to create websites?
-
Since working with divs and css, I've been hand coding my pages. Before that the complexity of table layouts meant Dreamwever was essential for laying things out. Having said that, I've recently been checking out a few hints and tips surrounding Dreamweaver and am fiddling with a few things to see if they could boost my productivity without compromising on the quality that comes from hand coding pages.
But mainly: Hand Code.
Regards,
Mark -
-
CommentAuthorrebuildtherobots
- CommentTimeOct 12th 2006
ive always hand coded my stuff, not out of spite for wysiwyg or anything its just thats how i started out.
although now i feel that actually learning the language (and all its foibles) you have a better grasp on whats going
on and the shortcuts available to you. Also it allows you to backwards engineer other peoples work and reshape
it for your own purposes. Ive met a few designers who use dreamweaver and when it comes to javascript and
php they just cut and paste stuff in and cross their fingers. This may work for some but i dont feel right using a
bit of code i dont understand enough to write myself. -
-
I've been hand coding for about a year now, since I discovered the wonders of web standards the XHTML is usually very simple and mostly pure content, extracting as much of the design and styles into CSS as possible.
Textmate is awesome for handcoding, if you have a mac you should definatly check it out.
It WILL save you a lot of time! -
Although I don't think it matters that much whether you hand-code or use a WYSIWYG (as long as your WYSIWYG generated code is correct, ie valid and semantic) I still prefer hand-coding. I feel like I have greater control and like to be able to flaunt the fact that it was `hand-coded` as most peoplein this thread will too :)
-
- CommentAuthoraaronledger
- CommentTimeOct 12th 2006
I started learning how to make websites using dreamweaver wysiwyg mode about 6 years ago, but soon realised i wasn't actually learning how to make websites, but rather how to use dreamweaver in design view.
Once I started looking at the code and got a few books out the library I found it much easier to create the layouts that I wanted because I had a better understanding of what you could and couldn't do wth html and css. And yes, being able to `hand-code` does gain you more respect from the techy crowd -
BBedit ftw.
I was never comfortable with WYSIWYG Editors because I like to know exactly what's going on in the guts of a program/website. I went through Dreamweaver, even Eclipse (my GOD what a beast) and I finally settled on BBedit. -
- CommentAuthormercurywipeout
- CommentTimeOct 12th 2006 edited
I use Dreamweaver 8 when I design websites and I am one (of what I believe is a few) of those people who typically uses the split design and code view, with the design view being the largest. I frequently switch to a full code view, however.
I use Dreamweaver mostly because I can easily see how the page will "generally look" once I view it in IE and Firefox without constantly bringing up browsers and because of how useful it is when codding CSS.
Yes, their are a few problems with Dreamweaver, but I have been using it so often that I have adapted to them.
And to clarify, I don't necessarily do anything drastic in the design view. I simply use it as a live "rough-view" of what I'm doing in code. -
-
CommentAuthorrebuildtherobots
- CommentTimeOct 12th 2006
@andrew - ive just started using textmate today and it amazing! cheers for the recommendation. i love the way it closes your tags for you and the way you can make your own code templates, excellent timesaver :high-five: -
-
I learnt html by creating my first site (waaaay back in 1996!) in Microsoft Word - the code it produced in the WYSIWYG was so appalling it forced me to learn the code behind the scenes to get anything to look right and it put me off WYSIWYG programs again. After a short spell using homesite I've used a notepad equivilant (Crimson Editor) ever since.
-
I first started with a handcoded img and a tags.
And I'm still working by handcoding, the only thing changed is the number of tags I use, the speed I use them with, and the program I work in (wich changed from NotePad to DreamWeaver).
Fr. Greetings,
Martijn -
I always code by hand, that way I know what to expect and how to fix it. So many WYSIWYG editors decide whats best for you removing all control.
Danny -
rebuildtherobots - check out this screencast: http://macromates.com/screencast/insert_html_tags.mov
It should help you get even more functionality and time saving out of it :P -
-
CommentAuthorthesambarnes
- CommentTimeOct 12th 2006
I learnt using a WYSIWYG called Spider Writer, and started hand-coding when I started in the industry professionally. I still update a site that hasnt been re-designed since my WYSIWYG days, horrid, currently under re-development to restore my web-cred. -
-
When I made my first website back in 1997 I tried to use Microsoft's Front Page. It was so frustrating and impenetrable that I almost immediately gave up and hand-coded my companies website in notepad.
A little later one on the magazines I bought had a copy of Dreamweaver on the coverdisk. I have used Dreamweaver ever since. I use both the the code window and the WYSIWYG preview. -
I have yet to find a WYSIWYG that I like. I don't even do a WYSIWYG when I blog. I use the coding side of Dreamweaver to do just about anything web-related.
I did use FrontPage back when I created the evil table layouts. Now I feel I have a better understanding of XHTML and CSS just by manually coding my website. -
I'm a hand coder as well, but recently I started playing with Aptana
-
Hand-Coder first, then WYSIWYG user, now back to Hand-Coder again.
I started hand-coding very simple pages (not sites) in 1997, but I didn't understand how to make fancy navigation with rollovers and tables, so in about 1999 I started using Fireworks for that then exporting to Dreamweaver 3.
When I started learning PHP is when I truly realized the benefit to hand-coding. When you are having code (PHP) write your code (HTML) you really have to understand how the whole thing gets put together (although you'd be surprised how many PHP books use examples that generate horrid HTML).
Today I use BBEdit for hand-coding, although I do like the tag-completing features of Dreamweaver, so I use code-view in that at times, as well. I also use Dreamweaver for managing local and remote site files (love that synchonization!), for doing site-wide find and replace (BBEdit can do it too, but I started doing it in DW first).
One thing I don't ever use Dreamweaver for is CSS; as a matter of fact, I find the 'improved' CSS palettes to be more harmful than good.
I find that people who find WYSIWYG editors useful are possibly 'designers' but not 'Web designers.' They have a general idea how to put things together, but don't know the language, so they rely on WYSIWYG, although if you've been in this business more than a few hours, you'll realize that WYS is hardly ever WYG.
To be fair, I think many 'Web deisngers' including myself, started using WYSIWYG before we knew the language of Web design
And, of course, there are some so-called Web designers who simply refuse to learn the language and cling to their WYSIWYG editors for reasons that escape me, though most of them will claim WYSIWYG is faster.
@LudwigI don't think it matters that much whether you hand-code or use a WYSIWYG (as long as your WYSIWYG generated code is correct, ie valid and semantic
Just curious: which WYSIWYG generates code that is valid and semantic? -
@amorphic; Well I haven't found one yet,which is why I hand-code...but if someone does find one then I wouldn't hold it against them.
-
-
CommentAuthorrebuildtherobots
- CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
amorphic8: Just curious: which WYSIWYG generates code that is valid and semantic?
frontpage, right? -
-
-
CommentAuthorTigerblade
- CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
Notepad all the way. I agree, it almost sounds more impressive when you can tell someone you hand-coded the site. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with wysiwyg editors, it's just one of those things. -
-
Hand code, I use Notepad++
-
I hand code everything with JEdit, with plenty of JEdit plugins to improve the experience. I have never used a WYSIWYG editor but I do know that when it comes to advanced Web development it would be impossibe to use one.
I use a PHP MVC framework for developing and each XHTML page is made up of several PHP template files and helper classes with the aim of never repeating any XHTML page elements twice. The result can be a huge maintainable website with very few lines of XHTML written. I don't see how WYSIWYG could help with any of this or if I decided to go the XML/DOM/XSLT route either. -
I started using FrontPage when it first came out, and realized it was garbage (no offense). Then I tried Dreamweaver and have used it ever since - although I have deserted the flawed design view for the homesite/code style view. But, if I am working on someone else's code, it helps to have the design view to click and jump to placed in the code quickly, especially if the code is a bit messy, which it always is because I am there to clean it up. Oh, the nasty code I've seen...
-
- CommentAuthorBlenderStyle
- CommentTimeOct 19th 2006
Definitely hand-coding. From day one, using HTMLGoodies.com, I've been doing everything in a text editor. I thought I made a big leap when I went to an editor with auto-indent and syntax highlighting. I tried Dreamweaver in a class, and it was pretty cool, especially with the split views, but a little cumbersome. -
amorphic8: Just curious: which WYSIWYG generates code that is valid and semantic?
frontpage, right?
PLEASE tell me that was a joke.
As far as my own preferences, i tend to use Eclipse (but I also do alot of PHP,Coldfusion, and Java), I wouldn't suggest the 'beast' of eclipse unless you have niche needs. I like it because its a single platform that i can develop it, no matter which language/technology i'm using.
JEdit is very nice on a Mac though.
and vi is my fav 'no-frills' editor.
the whole wysiwyg vs hand-code is like the holy war of vi vs emacs :) -
JEdit is very nice on any computer because it is written in Java.
-
- CommentAuthorSteven Gibbons
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2006
I always hand code in notepad usually but occasionally do use Dreamweaver but in code view, All depends on the code language im using. -
JEdit has syntax highlighting for about 160 languages, markups, configuration files, etc.
-
- CommentAuthormemoorhouse
- CommentTimeOct 24th 2006
I handcode - its so much cleaner, and now that I'm used to it... so much quicker too! -
if you are making xml files, i like to use xmlpad - and it's free.
laura -
I hand code everthing in dreamweaver!
-
I hand code, and have done since I started 'seriously' learning about web design a couple of years ago. Probably spend 90% of my time now using TextMate, but still use Dreamweaver occasionally. If I'm using a PC for any reason I use Notepad++
-
I also use Crimson Editor, tsWebeditor, Homesite and Top Style whenever I decide to ahve a change.
-
hey I also use Crimson editor nice app :)
-
Hand code in Dreamweavers code view.
Though when I used tables (when I was a complete n00b!) I did use the Design view and had know idea how to create a table by hand (I still don't :-P). -
Hand-Coder - notepad++
-
I (shamefully) use frontpage for my website!!
-
I (shamefully) use frontpage for my website!!
That is shameful!!!
Get hold of a copy of NVU or something - it's free after all. Expression Web Designer, microsoft's sucessor to Frontpage looks a lot better. -
whats good about nvu and expressions? And whats bad about wysiwyg?
-
whats good about nvu and expressions?
They produce better code.And whats bad about wysiwyg?
Nothing. In principal.
There's something seriously wrong with Frontpage, though. It produces code that's
a) rubbish
b) deliberately harder on non IE browsers
Most wysiwyg editors produce code that's less than ideal.
The biggest thing, these days, is that they're usually ok at producing tables-based code but bad at css (with the exception of Frontpage, which is just plain bad). -
i dont make css for my webpages i (shamefully) use table based design on (shamefully) frontpage!!
I feel so bad! -
-
CommentAuthorColourpool
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2007
And whats bad about wysiwyg?
well with front page & expressions i assume that it will employ MS tech to make some functionaility work, that means ActiveX and all sorts code in your Pages and that just means FF users wont see your fancy fuctionality. -
-
well with front page & expressions i assume that it will employ MS tech to make some functionaility work, that means ActiveX and all sorts code in your Pages and that just means FF users wont see your fancy fuctionality.
That's not true.
Neither uses activex to make the pages work - they produce html. Frontpage just produces bad html.
Expression seems a lot better than frontpage and produces fairly decent code, but it's windows only. -
ok thanks colourpool and rich
-
I used to use Dreamweaver in the design view, but have taught myself xhtml code and css so now use it purely in the code view. I am still slowly moving away from table based design tho, guess its easier if u have learnt divs etc from the start
-
-
CommentAuthorColourpool
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2007
I stand corrected and suitably chastised :oP
That will teach me to make assumptions. -
1 to 47 of 47