Comments on: Show 83: iphone bollocks

By: Richard

Richard — Mon, 12 May 2008 15:13:07 +0000

I'm just listening to a few back episodes... The breaking of the back button intrigued me, well not the breaking of it, but you mention ways to fix this, but dont quote any. Has anyone got any examples?

By: Oliver Treend

Oliver Treend — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:13:46 +0000

I really hope that Firefox won't get undermined by Safari for Windows! Firefox will always be my default browser.

By: Simon Griffiths

Simon Griffiths — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:04:48 +0000

I have a couple of comments on different subjects: -
Surely the Safari browser on Windows was released at the WWDC so that developers who want to write web apps for the iPhone had something to test them on if they aren’t running Macs. Simple as that!
I’m going to upset Paul with this one. I don’t agree with his comments on breaking the back button. In my opinion, it is all about how you see a web application. Is it a web page, or an application. If it is simply adding unobtrusive functionality to a web page, such as form validation, then I agree that the back button should work (but why would it need to for validation). However if it is an application like gmail, you really have to treat it as an app., and not even think of it running in the browser. In that case it should have the functionality and ‘undoability’ of the application. The interface design will dictate where the undo is, if there even is one.
I guess that with Adobes new efforts to bring these web apps to the desktop this has further blurred these lines, as you can’t have a browser undo in a desktop app. Therefore you shouldn’t really be designing for one if you are thinking of going this way.

By: Brett

Brett — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:24:04 +0000

Off topic, as I’m just beginning to listen to the podcast now, but I’ve been fooling with the Opera browser lately (anticipating buying the Opera cartridge for my Nintendo DS), and Boagworld looks like crap: all of the graphics, and even some of the text, is pixilated. The horror!
Weird, considering Opera even has a Validate pop-up menu and keyboard shortcut.
I thought only Microsoft could screw up something this badly. What’s up?

By: Mike Nolan

Mike Nolan — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:00:13 +0000

I really hope they don’t bundle it with iTunes though. They’re not even vaguely related! That’d be a very Microsoft-ish tactic, using a strong position in one market to try to dominate another. Yuck.
They will though – they already push out iTunes with QuickTime by default and okay, they’re more related, but iTunes Music Store is basically a browser so it’d make sense for them to replace IE as the rendering engine and ship their own product.

By: Andy Allcorn

Andy Allcorn — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:55:53 +0000

“Will Safari cut into Internet Explorers market share? Probably not. Will it undermine the market share Firefox has developed? Almost certainly.”
I fear you could be right; I fervently hope you’re wrong. Mike is right about iTunes, of course, but I suspect that’s largely due to iPod sales. There’s no product which would drive Safari downloads like that… unless… the iPhone? Here’s hoping. Even another percentage point from IE’s market share would be a step in the right direction.
I really hope they don’t bundle it with iTunes though. They’re not even vaguely related! That’d be a very Microsoft-ish tactic, using a strong position in one market to try to dominate another. Yuck.
“If safari under windows rendered exactly the same as under OSX then there maybe some benefit to windows based web developers. … However, in all likelihood differences will emerge and if they do then this is just another browser that we have to test against.”
Well, currently they render the same (so long as you have the same fonts) – and I see no reason for that to change. WebKit (the open source basis of Safari’s rendering) has undergone an awful lot of work in the platform abstraction department over the last couple of years, which is a lot of the reason for the Windows port emerging. It’s not a re-implementation, and it’s not a one-time port which will now be developed completely separately. I think we’ll see OS X, Windows and iPhone keep pretty much in step with each other over the next few years, and personally I find that very exciting from a design point of view.
“They are going to allow developers to build web 2.0 applications that can be accessed by iphone users using the built in Safari browser. What a load of bollocks.”
You’re right, of course. But I’m an optimist… I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future we see more open, real development, even if it’s only on the level of the invite-only, iTunes store-distributed iPod games we’ve got right now. I’d take that over nothing.
The reason for my optimism? It’s only just been finished. I’m certain that in the mad rush to get the phone done for 29th, stabilising and documenting APIs was not exactly high on the list. I’m counting on it being somewhere on the list!

By: Mike Nolan

Mike Nolan — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:27:58 +0000

I found Safari blisteringly fast as claimed and didn’t get any of the crashes other people have experienced.
“Will Safari cut into Internet Explorers market share? Probably not. Will it undermine the market share Firefox has developed? Almost certainly.”
I wonder about this as well. Windows Media Player is the default music player yet millions of people use iTunes – ordinary people, not just “early adopters”. I expect that Safari for Windows will be pushed out along side QuickTime and iTunes as soon as it’s stable which will massively increase the number of people with access to it.

By: Tim

Tim — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 02:58:49 +0000

I installed Safari out of morbid curiosity - seems OK but I don't think I'll be switching from Firefox any time soon. Seems that Safari automatically grabbed my preferences and bookmarks from FF too. Cheeky! What did everyone else think? Also, check out this discussion of sub-pixel rendering in Apple vs Microsoft environments. Interesting! And I can see the difference in Safari and IE. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html

By: Mike Nolan

Mike Nolan — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:48:36 +0000

Since Apple are in bed with Google (and vice versa!) I suspect it will be allowed as soon as it's stable.

By: Paul Boag

Paul Boag — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:44:43 +0000

Unless I am seriously misunderstanding gears that won't help because Gears has to run locally which means it needs installing and Apple wont allow apps to be installed on the iphone.