Comments on: Stuart Langridge on Javascript

By: Patrick Hall

Patrick Hall — Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:46:10 +0000

Eek, sorry, didn't mean it like that.

By: Paul Boag

Paul Boag — Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:27:11 +0000

I feel like you are setting me lines. However, thats not a bad idea. Ill have a look around at some of the techniques people are using and put some notes together.

By: Patrick Hall

Patrick Hall — Sun, 13 Nov 2005 02:36:25 +0000

Okay, Okay! I give in. Yes, we cant hold back innovation because of users preconceptions. Now will you all leave me alone :)
Hehe!
What if you atoned for your heinous sin ( :P ) by writing a post or two exploring techniques along the lines of the yellow fade technique? It’s a new thing, so I’m sure people have been coming up with interesting stuff to share… I myself have been working on a “completion bar” sort of widget for an editor I’ve been working on. (It’s not really functional yet.)

By: Paul Boag

Paul Boag — Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:27:44 +0000

Okay, Okay! I give in. Yes, we cant hold back innovation because of users preconceptions. Now will you all leave me alone :)

By: Paul Boag

Paul Boag — Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:19:05 +0000

Okay sounds like we are all saying the same thing. Stuart, I hope my comments didnt come across as a dig at you personally. I guess that you just triggered some concerns I already had from seeing some bad implimentation of AJAX.
It is actually because I am enthustiastic about flash, that I dont want it to suffer the same fate as flash. We heard at d.construct about how flash can actually be a brilliant application tool but because of bad implementation many just see it as a gimmick technology for bad animation. I guess we have to be careful that AJAX doesnt get cast in the same light because of bad usability.
One last thing. I want to make it clear that I am not for a minute suggesting we hold back the development of better interfaces. I am just suggesting we need to be careful to help users make that adjustment.

By: Stuart Langridge

Stuart Langridge — Sat, 12 Nov 2005 17:31:50 +0000

Andy's point is, I think, the best made here. While I entirely agree that breaking accepted usability norms for the sake of it is wrong, avoiding change simply because it is change hinders progress. If people are thinking that a web app isn't doing anything when they press the button, then that's a badly designed web app. As you say, Ajax is just another tool; it's possible to build sites with poor usability whether you use Ajax or not, and although relying on users' perception of the norms buys you education without effort, we do have the option of not forcing users through the bad things that browsers do (like make you twiddle your thumbs waiting) just because that's what they're accustomed to.

By: Andy Budd

Andy Budd — Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:39:14 +0000

While I generally agree that we should build GIU’s that conform to a users expectations, this does run the risk of permanently crippling innovation. We shouldn’t avoid making something better, just because users are used to it working in a less useful way.
As I said in my talk, I do think that the web is changing from a document delivery system to an application platform. As such, there is bound to be some confusion during the transfer process. Think of somebody buying a CD for the first time and trying to play it on their record player. You wouldn’t suggest that all CD players should be built like record players because that’s what users expect.
However page refreshes do indicate that something has happened, so you need to replicate this using techniques such as the yellow fade technique.

By: Paul Boag

Paul Boag — Sat, 12 Nov 2005 09:45:07 +0000

Yes it was nice to meet you too Zach. It was a really good day. I am glad I went.

By: Zach Inglis

Zach Inglis — Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:13:30 +0000

Was good to have met you finally :) Shame we didn't have a longer talk.

By: Paul Boag

Paul Boag — Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:22:56 +0000

Yeah I am coming around to that opinion myself Michael. I guess the lesson is that AJAX and JavaScript are not "enhancements" in themselves. They have to be coupled with good usability, accessibility, and design.